Stone Jaguar Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 Jeff: I'm curious; what other undescribed Hydnophytum sp/p. have "identical or close" leaves and are in cultivation? I am agnostic about use of these names in horticultural vernacular until this plant is formally described, but "needle leaf" is commonly used by growers in Europe, Asia and U.S. (as is "perangustum") for the plant under discussion. Given current selection of Hydnophytum spp. in cultivation (incl. the newly available taxa), I cannot see any chance of confusion/mistaken identity. J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff Posted August 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 Bonjour DERRICK I do not know who called so, but hey, the person who did it ,has some notions because in latin 'perangustum ' = very narrow for an culvitar if you use the ICNCP rules write just : Hydnophytum 'Perangustum' it is perhaps a taxon then H.perangustum is a good name , but we have no publication for this taxon STONE JAGUAR like cultivar yes , but it is perhaps a natural taxon . some others, known hydnophytum, have more or less linear or linear oblong leaves : ramispinum-subfalcifolium-stenophyllum - linearifolium-extendifolium may be others not yet known or known how we do so ? jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurélien Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 Jeff, The ICNCP says precisely that latin name for cultivars are forbidden, justly to avoid this type of confusion! And indeed, even if this species is correctly named one day, I'm afraid that we'll see for a long time this incorrect name in collections... So, Hydnophytum 'needle leaf' is a very frustrating name, but definitively the best (or at least the less inappropriate)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stone Jaguar Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 Jeff: It appears that we are talking at cross purposes. Frankly, I could care less what name people use until it's published; however it is useful to know what plant we are referring to when we discuss it in ornamental horticulture. Of the list of names you provided, I believe that only H. ramispinum is being cultivated by specialists, mostly in Europe. I have it, there are images of it on this forum, and IMO it looks nothing like "perangustum"/sp. "needle leaf" which is, as you know, quite distinctive amongst the Hydnophytum spp. in cultivation. Cheers, J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff Posted August 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2014 Bonjour for the use of epithet in Latin, read the articles 18 and 19 of the 2004 ICNCP it's perfectly possible.for the use of the epithet 'needle leaves' this is not recommended, error prone (see recommendation ICNCP 19D1) for me it is perfectly usable name (certainly it is not the panacea) , but pending a more appropriate legal name. I want to know nevertheless that gave the name to this specimen in horticultural cultivation for instant , yes ,I see just ramispinum ( maybe other info would be needed to be sure of the determination )and perangustum with these leaves linear or oblong linear . but maybe other specimens with needles leaves , linear , linear oblong leaves will ever be grown with the same epithet, and then there will be problem. Finally, it is my position, after, each has free to think what he wants. jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philman Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 Hello, I just wanted to show some of my results by growning this species from seed. For me it is H.spec."Needle Leaf", while I bought the mother plant as H.perangustum at an orchid show. Shortly after i got the plant it started to set white flowers and I got several orange berries within the last summer. All had two seeds in it. I placed the washed seed on fine coconut soil in an old sweetbox close to my southern facing window. Germination was 100% at nearly 100%humidity and around 20-35°C. The shady german winter brought some red spider mites to my windowsill and the mother plant lost all its leaves. I sprayed Neem oil (Bayer Neem) to get rid of the mites, which worked very very well. Unfortunately some helpfull little black mites in the seedbox were killed too. This led to a growth of white fungus in the box. Since we got more sunny days the last weeks, I moved the lid from the box and the fungus got less. The plants seem to be hard enough now to cope with my windowsill climate. Fortunately the motherplant survived the pest and is growing pretty well now. The plants with the dark brown caudex are about four month older than the other ones. The box is about 11cm in diameter. I know the plants would be bigger under greenhouse conditions, but i cannot provide these yet. All the best Philipp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff Posted March 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 Bonjour very good sucess PHILIPP JEFF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philman Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 Hey Jeff, Thanks! The Seed and the plants i got from you do very well too. I will Post some pictures when they got bigger. All the best Philipp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stone Jaguar Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 Howdy, all. A couple images of my mother plant taken this past weekend. The plant is in a 15 cm wooden basket, grown on a bench in a warm greenhouse. Given its very distinctive appearance, relatively small size and handsome caudex, this seems a superb subject for broader tropical ornamental horticulture amongst caudiciform lovers. While it does have the drawback of dropping (most or all of) its leaves when chilled for more than a day or so, they do re-foliate quite quickly when conditions improve to their liking. In any event, I find that warmth and humidity a must if one wishes to see them at their best. They are, as others have shown here, very prolific fruit producers even in youth. I have found them to be very fast-growing from seed, and have a number of ~10-12 cm multi-branched plants that are <one year from sow date. Cheers, J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Wistuba Posted March 15, 2015 Report Share Posted March 15, 2015 Greetings: Apropos of this observation and in confirmation of the claim posted here, I have attached an image of a young Myrmecodia platytyrea var. antoinii that produced a root flush from a broken central vein late last year. Unfortunately, the leaf was knocked off some time later by a greenhouse worker before it made the next step to new leaf production, but the image certainly proves that under certain conditions leaves of this species at least can generate viable roots. I am also starting to see what appears to be an interesting related phenomenon with a fully decapitated, un-branched young M. "jobiensis" from Andreas. The main stem looks like it is generating a number of tiny bulbils with swollen bases on the upper stem as opposed to just new leaf nodes. Still too early to be sure, but it certainly looks like yet another previously unreported route for asexual reproduction in these plants. Cheers, J Hi Jay, it is possible to cut leaves and root them. I've done this a couple of time. They stay green for many months but in my case always died at some point without producing a shoot. All the best Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Pulvirenti Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 Stone Jaguar With Hydnophytum"perangustum"/sp."needle leaf" you said that if it were chilled for more than a day it would loose most or all of its leaves, but quickly re-foliate with improved conditions. My questions are, what do you consider a chill in regards to temperature and duration of such temperatures? Also what would you consider to be a safe minimum wintering temp. Min. to max. for this species? Thank you. Cheers Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Wistuba Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 Stone Jaguar With Hydnophytum"perangustum"/sp."needle leaf" you said that if it were chilled for more than a day it would loose most or all of its leaves, but quickly re-foliate with improved conditions. My questions are, what do you consider a chill in regards to temperature and duration of such temperatures? Also what would you consider to be a safe minimum wintering temp. Min. to max. for this species? Thank you. Cheers Robert I have had them in my highland greenhouse - accidentally a tray of plants that stayed there instead of the warm greenhouse. Temperature goes down to 12°C. They absolutely do not like that, foliage is not very healthy, but they do not die. All the best Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stone Jaguar Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 Robert: Based on my experience, I would say that temperatures below 10 degrees C (~50 degrees F) produce very rapid leaf drop in this species but the plants don't appear to be affected long-term. Certainly, night-time lows around the temperature that Andreas mentions above, i.e. 12-13 degrees C (~55 degrees F) produce a slower decline, with leaves gradually turning yellow then dropping off basally to terminally until only naked stems remained after several weeks. This species, together with H. simplex and several lowland Myrmecodia spp., appear to languish unless nigh-time temperatures are kept north of ~16 degrees C (~60 degrees F) and day-time temps remain textbook "tropical". On the upper end of the temperature range, I have not tested any hydnophytines beyond about 33 degrees C (~92 F). J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff Posted March 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2015 Bonjour Greetings: Apropos of this observation and in confirmation of the claim posted here, I have attached an image of a young Myrmecodia platytyrea var. antoinii that produced a root flush from a broken central vein late last year. Unfortunately, the leaf was knocked off some time later by a greenhouse worker before it made the next step to new leaf production, but the image certainly proves that under certain conditions leaves of this species at least can generate viable roots. I am also starting to see what appears to be an interesting related phenomenon with a fully decapitated, un-branched young M. "jobiensis" from Andreas. The main stem looks like it is generating a number of tiny bulbils with swollen bases on the upper stem as opposed to just new leaf nodes. Still too early to be sure, but it certainly looks like yet another previously unreported route for asexual reproduction in these plants. Cheers, J I am interested by your experience on this leave succeded you to have a new plant ? jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Pulvirenti Posted March 17, 2015 Report Share Posted March 17, 2015 Stone Jaguar On the upper end of the temperature range, in the case of a well ventilated shadehouse all my ant plants have gone through two consecutive days of 38.8 C and 38 C last November (late spring), another two days 37.8 C and 35 C in December (early Summer) and another 35 C March(early Autumn) all with no Ill effects. The only ill effects were felt by the plant growers when things got above 35 C! Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrick Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 So it is to be an official name if it does FINALLY get published. Currently we may use Hydnophytum perangustum Jebb & C. R. Huxley in press. However, for some unknown reason this is taking an extremely long time to be published, but It is evident that copies of Jebb & Huxley's Hydnophytum revision have been shared with some academics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stone Jaguar Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 Derrick: Hopefully, this is the name we use down the line. I have seen several examples when descriptions of tropical plants like this that are in horticulture sit unpublished in someone's files for ages until someone else comes along and describes them under quite another name. As a recent example from this region, I believe that Nepenthes rigidifolia Akriadi, Hernawati & Tamin had two "good" horticultural names (alpicola and aptera) used in the trade prior to it being published under the valid binomial. Does anyone have any ideas a to when this monograph on hydnos is expected to be published? Cheers, J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff Posted August 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 for the taxon the rule is the anteriority in your example, what is the oldest name published ? jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stone Jaguar Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Jeff: Sorry, not clear. What I wish to point out is that until such time as "perangustum" is published with proper diagnosis, etc. someone else - Art Vogel or a Malaysian botanist, for example - can come along and publish another name and that will be that. H. "perangustum" is not a valid binomial until it is published and I have yet to see suggestions that event this is imminent... In the case I mentioned, I understand that Lee used alpicola and aptera as a handy working designation for this particular Nepenthes while he got around to describing it. In the meanwhile, the three Indonesian botanists listed above got there first and published it, hence only valid name is N. rigidifolia. The others were never published, just widely used in horticulture. J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff Posted August 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 Bonjour What I wish to point out is that until such time as "perangustum" is published with proper diagnosis, etc. someone else - Art Vogel or a Malaysian botanist, for example - can come along and publish another name and that will be that. H. "perangustum" is not a valid binomial until it is published and I have yet to see suggestions that event this is imminent... I am OK with you , but actually 2 names for this species ( if it is the same) "perangustum" or " sp needle leaf " what we know by ART VOGEL This specie I have collected this ome in a heath forest Nabawan, Sabah, Borneo dec 1995. I have this one in the meantime for many years in cultivation at the Hortus Botanicus Leiden, In the recent past I have given away seeds to different persons who has visited the garden. The name I have seen in on the internet, but I have never seen a official publication, so my question: where comes the name from for that In the case I mentioned, I understand that Lee used alpicola and aptera as a handy working designation for this particular Nepenthes while he got around to describing it. In the meanwhile, the three Indonesian botanists listed above got there first and published it, hence only valid name is N. rigidifolia. The others were never published, just widely used in horticulture. it is a natural taxon or a horticole cultivar ? for me if it is a natural taxon just the name N.rigidifolia is valid since published, no other publication anterior. jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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