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Nice shots!

Nice observations!

Hi, It seems that's only minor variations, not recognized by modern taxonomy. here a specimen in C.E. Sulawesi: The best, Aurélien

I drop it again here.

It helps to have all chapters as one link. When looking up information on ant plants, referencing your book first helps a lot and saves time. I might have put some redundant or duplicate information and links above. When I searched the database the first time, not much information was on Hoya imbricata. After I posted what I found, I rechecked your database and this time information on H. imbricata was there. I am not sure why I did not see the information the first time I checked.

That is as much as I could find for the day. I hope my humor came across well for headache relief. It can be a headache. The E book database will clear up a lot of confusion.

The essential answer to the original question has already been covered under Hoya imbricata in my E book database. However, I have added a little more detail that hopefully will appear in my 2022 edition. I am soon to have heart surgery so ?????

Perhaps determine which, of the names above, are synonymous with H. imbricata and which ones are considered seperate species? They are synonymous according to BLUMEA 46 (2001) 457-483, which also states Hoya shallertiae is synonymous: "We do not think that the variation in above-mentioned vegetative traits justifies the separation of these growth forms into separate taxa. We have therefore placed H. maxima (H. Karst.) Warb., H. pseudomaxima Koord. and H. imbricata Decne. forma basi-subcordata Koord. in synonymy with H. imbricata Decne. We suspect that H. shallertiae Burton was described from a herbarium sheet containing flowers of H. imbricata and branches of Dischidia imbricata. If so, this species would also be placed in synonymy with H. imbricata." In some places they are listed as seperate species. Tropicos, Kew, IPNI: Hoya imbricata: Tropicos, Kew, IPNI. Hoya imbricata var. basi-subcordata: N/A Hoya maxima: Tropicos, Kew, IPNI. Hoya psuedomaxima: Tropicos, Kew ( considered a synonym of Hoya imbricata subsp. imbricata), IPNI. Hoya shallertiae: Tropicos N/A, Kew, IPNI N/A. Dale Kloppenburg has contributed a lot of information on Hoyas. Some relief here: Kloppenburg BHL. https://blog.biodiversitylibrary.org/2018/02/bhl-gains-works-on-diverse-plant-genus.html https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/search?searchTerm=Kloppenburg&stype=F#/titles Section Peltostemma (Hoya imbricata and Hoya maxima), page 11. https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/item/228164#page/17/mode/1up Accurate data no matter how old, and direct observations help. Where do you draw the line though, or should you? Is there even a line? There is a lot of information but how do you structure it before a migraine sets in? To add to the confusion. The names Hoya imbricata/maxima, Hoya cf. imbricata and Hoya imbricata var. basirotunda. Have also been used. Also, the first picture following page 267 shows the typical form, and the flower does not look like it belongs to Hoya imbricata! I think it boils down to asprin, acetaminophen or ibuprofen.

This is what IPNI (International plant name index) records for H. imbricata. https://www.ipni.org/?f=f_specific&q=genus%3AHoya%2Cspecies%3Aimbricata Tropicos page. https://tropicos.org/name/2601517 Thus, there is probably no scientifically accepted list of possible varieties of this fairly widespread variable species. Indeed, it seems that the modern botanical trend is to mostly avoid varieties. Of course many commercial sources will try to name what they sell, often with little to no scientific or even useful to the buyer accuracy. So it is very much a case of buyer beware. Hobbyists need commonly accepted labels for valued growth forms. That is a name that means the same to as wide an audience as possible. An ever growing (pun intended) problem in our globalist world. It is possible that widely accepted labels are used in one or more specialist Hoya groups. I am not a Hoya specialist, so I cannot add more. One way that new plants lacking an official name can be distributed is by adding the original collection location in "double quotes" preferably also in lower case to avoid confusion with registered cultivars. Correct grammar can surely be overlooked here. Thus as Hoya sp? "bada valley, central highlands, sulawesi". A registered cultivar however, would be shown as Hoya imbricata 'Whatever'

I looked again and found Hoya maxima from Celebes. There is not much information about it. It is in German. Sulawesi is also known as Celebes. The Philippine journal of science. https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/item/1125#page/2/mode/1up Page 265: "Hoya maxima aus Nord-Ost-Celebes" (Hoya maxima from north-east-Celebes). If I am translating it all correctly, the upper side of Hoya pseudomaxima is completely smooth without cuticular stools or fluffy hair. Also, here is some information: The World of Hoyas - A Pictorial Guide by Dale Kloppenburg http://dalekloppenburg.blogspot.com/2017/02/the-world-of-hoyas-pictoral-guide-book.html?m=1 https://issuu.com/jeanclode/docs/hoyafoliage_guida

This has some information describing the differences (not entirely in English) and includes drawings. It shows different forms. I am assuming it only describes plants found in the Philippines. Hoya maxima is not listed. Could this be because it is mainly on Sulawesi? Year: 1919 (102 years ago). https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/item/1125#page/2/mode/1up You can browser search directly in the pages or download the 600+ page file and search it that way. There is recent information on their differences. In the past I have grown some of these but I did not explore their differences. I wish I had investigated them more, especially beyond the naked eye. Information on Hoya maxima (Sulawesi) as a synonym of Hoya imbricata: BLUMEA 46 (2001) 457-483 Hoya maxima herbarium: http://www.plantsoftheworldonline.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:98555-1 Also, translating the latin names suggests the basic differences. There is much more genetic variation than is documented of course, that is life.

Tlk abt getting a freaking headache. No wonder there is soooooo much confusion in the ant plant world. Greatly appreciate any insight. Hoya imbricata var. imbricata [green leaves & drk green speckled white/silvery leaves], Hoya imbricata var basi subcordata [drk green speckled white/silvery leaves], Hoya imbricata maxima [silver leaves], Hoya imbricata maxima [red corona/flower--drk green speckled white/silvery leaves], Hoya Imbricata maxima [white flower--drk green speckled white/silvery leaves], Hoya imbricata maxima [yellow corona--drk green speckled white/silvery leaves], Hoya pseudo-maxima AP1162 [drk green speckled white/silvery leaves] Mindanao, Philippines, Hoya pseudo-maxima AP1163 [green leaves] Mindanao, Philippines, Dischidia imbricata var flat [green leaves]

Seeds don't travel as well overseas given rules and delays. So give us the country where you are and maybe someone there will give or sell you some seeds If your "Thank's mate" is a clue, we do have some wonderful members in Australia who may post to you here or send you a PM (personal message here on our site)

Thanks mate. I have never used facebook but if it's a viable source of information maybe will venture there. I had hopes this site would serve a similar service /could possibly find people to trade with when mine is producing berries.

Hi Ideaguy, welcome to the forum. Yep, everyone got it right! If you are lucky enough that a little caudex starts to form it will be slow and ugly and never get to be the real thing - and may never fruit and if it does you could have done it faster and better with a seed. Start from a seed and you will have a caudex within a couple months (yes, I know,very small to start but already with an ant entry hole in the bottom!). Folks on the facebook group "Ant Plant Cultivation" talk about cuttings on a regular basis. Search back there if you want to see more "its not worth it". Much better you should ask there if any seeds are available. A lot of seed moves thru that site. And growing from seed is easy, just lay them on long fiber sphagnum moss and don't let it dry out. Hydnophytum moseleyanum is usually not shy about blooming. If your plant is in a 4 inch pot or bigger it should be flowering, even possibly in a 3 inch pot. Give if tomato fertilizer or any formula that promotes flowering and fruiting on a regular basis.

Hello, I recently bought H. moselyanum I was reading that rooted cutting will not form a caudex. So everyone says "its not worth it". It seems to me that cloning would still leave you with some epiphytic sprawling "vines" that would still produce viable seeds. Any insight on that? Anyone have experience with taking and keeping clones from these?

More nectar images. Ants love it. I am not suggesting it is safe to eat and I do not know the composition of the nectar. However, It is very sweet (don't ask how I know that). The ants feed on the ferns nectar, and I can see their abdomen expand as they gorge themselves. Many Ant species have two stomachs a private stomach and a social stomach.

I also had no trouble in opening and viewing. Truly Amazing! Thanks so much ken

Derrick!!! Thank you very much for providing us with the fruits of your many years of labor as regards your extensive database of Epiphytic Myrmecophytes!!!!!!!! I just browsed 4 of the chapters and had no trouble opening or navigating them. Photo quality is excellent and the extent of your research is truly inspiring! We are honored to have all this available to us at our "finger tips". I want to encourage all of our members and guests make use of all of this that you have provided. It is so thorough that some of us will feel overwhelmed with reading it, but start at least with browsing some of the chapters and look for photos and things that interest you. I expect you will keep coming back. Administrator, Frank

All chapters are now available from one link. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/gnxb5l5t440rpr2/AACsAKqANEqAyznBh_jJd7mEa?dl=0 I am still not sure if this is downloadable due to lack of feedback. Also, I find Dropbox is NOT user friendly.

In 2017 I received a packet of seeds labeled as Anthorrhiza caerulea. I sowed them and got good germination. There was some variation in the seedlings and young plants but all were making large asymmetrically branched spines on both the caudex and stem - what was not to like about that! In 2018 and 2019 I sold some of the plants on the American eBay using the name on the seed packet, Anthorrhiza caerulea. "Caerulea" is derived from a Latin word meaning blue in reference to the fact that this species has beautiful blue flowers. My first plant bloomed in September of 2020 and is pictured here. The far right plant in this next photo is my A. caerulea plant again - note the raised, bold nature of the leaf veins on the underside of the leaves. By the time I took this photo it was obvious that the other plants I still had from this sowing were not A. caerulea. They are the two smaller plants in the above photo. They have more elongated narrower leaves, and the veins on the underside are not bold and outstanding. Then I got an email from Ken Howell (a Forum member) who had bought one of my eBay supposedly A. caerulea plants. He was wondering why his plant had flowered with 2 inch long pure white flowers and not the expected blue flowers? Ken did an excellent job of growing these plants! Here is a great photo of his most recent blooming and fruiting event. Note the asymmetrically branched spines, especially on the stem, the large white flowers and the unusual fruit color. With Ken's information and photo, and with reference to the "Huxley and Jebb article on the genus Anthorrhiza" on the internet, it is obvious that this is not A. caerulea but is in fact Anthorrhiza chrysacantha. The yellow-orange fruit color is a nice confirmation of the ID. Turns out that these two species live as epiphytes in the same mountain forests in PNG. That would account for the mixed seeds I had in my seed packet. So, if you acquired one of my "A. caerulea" plants from me in 2018 or 2019 and your plant looks like Ken's photo here you will need to change your plant's label to A. chrysacantha. If you are growing either of these species I suggest you look at the drawings in this article that you can find on the internet with a Google search: "Huxley CR, Jebb MHP. 1991. The tuberous epiphytes of the Rubiaceae 2: The new genus Anthorrhiza". The drawings of both species show the stems and caudexes entirely covered with dense spinage. It is going to be exciting watching the spines filling in as these plants mature. (You can also see photos of "full spinage" in the posting by Andreas titled "Anthorrhiza chrysacantha" slightly below this posting in this Anthorrhiza section of the Forum) Let me also note that in 2018 Andreas Wistuba sold seedlings of a plant he called A. chrysacantha from Mt. Kaindi in PNG. I am growing one of these and it is chunkier than the chrysacanthas I have, currently has little spinage and reminds me more of a M. horrida. I am waiting for it to flower so I can study it and discuss it further. (Ken's photo of his A. chrysacantha plant is used here with his written permission. The other 2 photos are mine. As per Forum policy reuse of any photos here require written permission of the original photo owner.)

Have you tried using a rooting hormone gel ? or powder ?

Nice looking plants Gonny

Hi all! To begin '21 with a nice new, the first (impressive!) flower of Strophocactus wittii in Nancy's greenhouses. Growing epiphytically in the trunk of Cecropia membranacea, from cuttings from Geneve BG (Switzerland) in 2017. The best, Aurélien

Thank you very much to all who have contributed to the funding of our forum in the previous years! AS TO THIS YEAR, 2021: Every time I sign on to our forum the first thing I check is who is currently online. Over 90% of the viewers are "guests". Many of our original and early members have left or visit only occasionally. This is not really a surprise; there has always been an "ebb and flow" to what group of plants are popular and being sought out in any given year. The "tide is clearly out" on ant-plants right now. There are thousand of books and websites for orchids, cacti, succulents, carnivorous plants, etc. But there is little to answer the need for information on ant-plants. That is why I, and the other monetary contributors here, are making an effort to keep all the great information and photos stored here available to the entire world via the internet. I need you, the visitors who profit most from the availability of this information, to help fund this forum. It would cost you plenty to buy a book that had all the information found here on this site. Some of you visit and "read the book" on a regular basis. Please pay a little for that opportunity. I am asking you, our guests, to step up and fund a month or two of our forum fees to Invision. That is the sole use of your contributions. With our monthly fees to Invision being only $20 it should not “break the bank” for most of us to pitch in and fund a month or two. This small amount is keeping the fabulous photos and information we have accumulated here available to the entire world via the internet. To fund a month, please email me at franksantplants@gmail.com with the “note” line saying “forum” and the name you want me to use for you in the chart below (or let me know if you prefer to be acknowledged as “anonymous” or perhaps as "guest"). I will email you back with a paypal address for you to send the donation to. Thank you very much. Please make your mark in 2021 by stepping up and helping with the forum funding. Thank you, Forum Administrator, Frank Omilian 2021 CONTRIBUTORS TO THE FORUM: January - Ken Howell, Thank you Ken for starting the year off for us again this year! February - Ken Howell March - Bern Mlynczak, And thank you Bern for giving us 2 months again like you did last year! April - Bern Mlynczak May - Frank Omilian, Thanks men, you inspired me! Who will be next? Step up and take July please. June - Frank Omilian July - Adrian Napiorkowski, Excellent Adrian, thank you for contributing again this year! Well done. August September October November December Edited November 26 by Frank