Derrick Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 H. keiense Becc. (Odoardo Beccari) in Malesia raccolta 2, p131, (1885), (Malesia 2.) http://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/page/44197640#page/245/mode/1upType collection was on the Kei Islands, in the Moluccas, Indonesia, (Isole Kei. Kei Bandan a Weri) Kiense or kejense Becc. The above spelling was used in Beccari’s type description on p131; however, on p123 and on tavola 31, he spelt it as H. kejense, which is undoubtedly THE typographical error because of the plants collection location, which is Kei (an island.) The Latin suffix ense means "of from or relating to"; therefore, keiense was surely the intended epithet. Furthermore, Beccari himself used the name H. keiense on the following Type sheet. http://plants.jstor.org/stable/10.5555/al.ap.specimen.fi008894 The forest resources of the territories of Papua and New Guinea, p138, (1925). Provides a short description in English of a “common epiphyte on many tree species.” Collected at Buna, Latitude 8° 40' 0" South, Longitude 148° 24' 0" East PNG, http://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/page/723554#page/162/mode/1up. However, the name is now a synonym of H. radicans. http://plants.jstor.org/stable/10.5555/al.ap.specimen.k000761921 H. kejense Becc, (Odoardo Beccari) in Malesia raccolta 2, p123, tav. xxxi (31), (1885). Name in summary of species http://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/page/44197826#page/237/mode/1up.Beccari illustration tav 31 http://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/page/44197826#page/149/mode/1up.A typographical error of H. keiense but regardless it is merely a synonym of H. radicans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurélien Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 Hi Derrick, Its seems that the two names refers to the same plant, but also to two different publications : 1884 (as H. kejense): http://www.ipni.org/ipni/idPlantNameSearch.do;jsessionid=B2A8B8DE99C9A0778956D1FC979A941E?id=753460-1&back_page=%2Fipni%2FeditAdvPlantNameSearch.do%3Bjsessionid%3DB2A8B8DE99C9A0778956D1FC979A941E%3Ffind_infragenus%3D%26find_isAPNIRecord%3Dtrue%26find_geoUnit%3D%26find_includePublicationAuthors%3Dtrue%26find_addedSince%3D%26find_family%3D%26find_genus%3Dhydnophytum%26find_sortByFamily%3Dtrue%26find_isGCIRecord%3Dtrue%26find_infrafamily%3D%26find_rankToReturn%3Dall%26find_publicationTitle%3D%26find_authorAbbrev%3D%26find_infraspecies%3D%26find_includeBasionymAuthors%3Dtrue%26find_modifiedSince%3D%26find_isIKRecord%3Dtrue%26find_species%3D%26output_format%3Dnormal 1885 (as H. keiense): http://www.ipni.org/ipni/idPlantNameSearch.do;jsessionid=B2A8B8DE99C9A0778956D1FC979A941E?id=753459-1&back_page=%2Fipni%2FeditAdvPlantNameSearch.do%3Bjsessionid%3DB2A8B8DE99C9A0778956D1FC979A941E%3Ffind_infragenus%3D%26find_isAPNIRecord%3Dtrue%26find_geoUnit%3D%26find_includePublicationAuthors%3Dtrue%26find_addedSince%3D%26find_family%3D%26find_genus%3Dhydnophytum%26find_sortByFamily%3Dtrue%26find_isGCIRecord%3Dtrue%26find_infrafamily%3D%26find_rankToReturn%3Dall%26find_publicationTitle%3D%26find_authorAbbrev%3D%26find_infraspecies%3D%26find_includeBasionymAuthors%3Dtrue%26find_modifiedSince%3D%26find_isIKRecord%3Dtrue%26find_species%3D%26output_format%3Dnormal However, WCSP seems to accept only H. kejense: http://apps.kew.org/wcsp/namedetail.do?name_id=100954 Interestingly, they do not consider this name as a synonym of H. radicans, which is also still valid. I suppose that "kejense" results of the latinisation of "Kei". Albeit actual botanists use often the apposition for the specific epithet, at 19th century, many botanists were good latinists and transalted all the location names. For example, "sandwicensis" for Sandwich Island, "lusitanicum" for portugal, "vogesiaca" for Vosges mountains, "Gallica" for France, "Australasica" for Australia, "neozelandica" for New Zealand... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrick Posted August 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 I don't have much faith in WCSP etc., lists, simply because their task is so truly astronomical in size and complexity. Just looking at possible names for the genus Hydnophytum is a daunting job but these data bases are working on entire plant families with enormously more genera. Also WCSP & IPNI don't show the decades of Huxley & Jebb's work, due to its current lack of publication. One day perhaps we will have programs controlled by very advanced (AI?) computers that can help we humans sort though such massive volumes of data. Because both spellings were published in Malesia 2. I had considered they would have the same publication date but it seems my (lazy) assumption is probably wrong. I must check exactly when the sections of Malesia two were published. That these names have not yet been relegated to synonyms of H. radicans is again because of the lack of a published revision. There are many other examples. A few days ago I contacted IPNI with a query; If they prove to be helpful I will continue to liaise with them but so far no reply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurélien Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 That these names have not yet been relegated to synonyms of H. radicans is again because of the lack of a published revision. There are many other examples. A few days ago I contacted IPNI with a query; If they prove to be helpful I will continue to liaise with them but so far no reply. I had contact with them and Dr. Aymeric Roccia about Pinguicula caussensis' publication a few years ago. They answer only after a few days, but were helpful and correct the database quickly. I also have frequent request for Rafaël Govarets, who work in the WCSP, for my work at Nancy's BG. He answer systematically the same day and is trully helpful. In the few cases which I detect mistakes on the databases, it were also corrected the same day. I don't have much faith in WCSP etc., lists, simply because their task is so truly astronomical in size and complexity. These DB are only compilation of publication... But trully helpfull if you need an unique reference (as BG's should have) for synonyms (WCSP), geographical repartition, authors (IPNI), orthograph... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 Bonjour for me P.caussensis is always a P.longifolia subsp caussensis ( Casper in Repert spec nov 66 ( 1962) why change the name ? the DNA analysis ? for the hydnophytum kejense , keiense , radicans are they the same ? you have all the element the tuber picture , the fower picture (with the anthers-stigma etc)have you seen for all these 3 species some fresh specimens ? if all are the same the anteriority rule applies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrick Posted March 14, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2019 Here a Kew Type specimen originally labelled H. keiense is assigned to H. radicans by Huxley 1992. Weri Bandan, Kai Besar (formerly Kei) Island, south east Moluccas archipelago (Spice Islands), Indonesia, (Isole Kei, Bandan a Weri. Isole = island, Kai Besar being the largest. Bandan is a political/population centre, Weri means stream. Note the low number of collections ever assigned to keiense or kejense. http://apps.kew.org/herbcat/getImage.do?imageBarcode=K000761921 H. keiense Becc. Papua New Guinea, Milne Bay Province, Peria Creek, Kwagira (Kwaria) River 9°42'S 149°23'E. Brass collection (1953). Here assigned to H. radicans by Chomicki in 2013. http://kiki.huh.harvard.edu/databases/specimen_search.php?mode=details&id=518743 Thus it seems very probable that the names keiense and kejense will become historical when a hydnophytum revision is finally published. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff Posted March 15, 2019 Report Share Posted March 15, 2019 Bonjour for me H.kiense is not a H radicans , the leaves are not the same . see here a H.radicans authenticate by HUXLEY 1991 http://pinguicula.free.fr/radicans -dilo.png Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrick Posted March 15, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2019 Jeff. I suggest you check a lot more herbarium sheets. I have already checked at least 100 sheets of radicans and possibly associated species. I found that the leaf shape of species accepted as H. radicans by the experts is surprisingly LARGE. To the degree that leaf shape has very little influence on the defining features of this species. My initial thought was that DNA evidence might change our understanding of what defines H. radicans. Yet Dr Guillaume Chomicki's acceptance of the H. kiense specimen above, suggests NO. He certainly is using DNA in his work, but I cannot guarantee DNA tests were performed on this particular specimen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrick Posted March 15, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2019 H. dolichophyllum Val. (Theodoric Valeton) in Just’s botanischer jahresbericht. Systematisch geordnetes repertorium der botanischen literatur aller länder, vol.61, p130, (1927) (Bot. Jahrb. Syst.) Only digitised to 1922. Here an H. dolichophyllum Val., collection (not type, probably because they were lost during the second world war) is referred to H. radicans by Huxley in 1991. (Ledermann collection 1912), Papua New Guinea, Sepikgebiet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrick Posted March 15, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2019 H. radicans Becc. (Odoardo Beccari) in, Malesia raccolta 2, p132, (1885.) Herbarium specimens assigned to this name show large variations in leaf shapes. Do we have cryptic species here? (Malesia 2) http://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/page/44197640#page/246/mode/1up In summary http://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/page/44197640#page/237/mode/1up Beccari’s image http://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/page/44197829#page/147/mode/1up Beccari illustration http://plantillustrations.org/illustration.php?id_illustration=327448 Val. (Theodoric Valeton) in Nova Guinea: résultats de l'expédition scientifique néerlandaise à la Nouvelle-Guinée. (Nova Guinea 8, part1), p503. (1906-1907.) http://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/item/42443#page/535/mode/1up Merr. & L. M. Perry. (Elmer Drew Merrill & Lily May Perry) Journal of the Arnold Arboretum vol. 26, p24, (1945). (J. Arnold Arbor.) It may not always form a tuber, See page 17 under H. archboldiana in, https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/page/8443412#page/28/mode/1up A common canopy epiphyte in ridge forest, tuber small, branches long, weak, semi-herbaceous, leaves fleshy. Flowers white, (slightly yellow to ochre according to Beccari, fruit soft, red, ± 5 mm. long, 3 mm. Ø. Collections. Papua New Guinea, Northern Province, Buna District. Western Province, Palmer River, 2 miles below junction of Black River, at 100 m. (328 ft.) http://www.pngplants.org/ Papua New Guinea, East Sepik Province, Andai. Type, Florence, H. http://plants.jstor.org/stable/10.5555/al.ap.specimen.fi008893 (Undated) Versteeg collections, Nova Guinea, neerlandica meridionalis. http://data.biodiversitydata.nl/naturalis/specimen/L.2913925 http://data.biodiversitydata.nl/naturalis/specimen/L.2913926 (1926) Docters van Leeuwen coll. West New Guinea Island, Nassau Mts. Taritaku (Rouffaer) River forest. http://data.biodiversitydata.nl/naturalis/specimen/L.2913974 (1926) Docters van Leeuwen coll. West New Guinea Island, Albatros bivak (camp) Mamberamo River. Flower yellow. http://data.biodiversitydata.nl/naturalis/specimen/L.2913949 (1935 Carr., coll.) Papua New Guinea, Central Province, Rouna. Rouna falls on the Laloki river are a popular tourist site on the road up to the Sogeri Plateau behind Port Moresby. http://data.biodiversitydata.nl/naturalis/specimen/L.2913951 http://data.biodiversitydata.nl/naturalis/specimen/L.2913916 (1936 Carr., coll.) Papua New Guinea, Oro Province, Kokoda. http://data.biodiversitydata.nl/naturalis/specimen/L.2913971 (1956) Papua New Guinea, Milne Bay Province, Normanby Island, Lebudowa River. http://data.biodiversitydata.nl/naturalis/specimen/L.2913953 (1963) Epiphyte in branches of Samanea saman, large tuberous base, sparsely galleried, foliage bearing shoots up to 7ft long, slender but erect. Flowers white, fruit orange-red when ripe. Papua New Guinea, Morobe Province, Morobe Agricultural station. 3 miles from LAE. http://apps.kew.org/herbcat/detailsQuery.do?barcode=K001045937 (1963) Shrub, 3 ft., pendulous, bulbous base housing ants. Flower white. Fruit red, succulent. Papua New Guinea, Morobe Province, Bumbu River. http://data.biodiversitydata.nl/naturalis/specimen/L.2914127 (1975) Epiphyte, swollen chambered stem, stems dark brown, leaves leathery, dark green above, paler beneath, inflorescence, pale grey-green, flower buds white; young fruits orange. At 250 m in lowland rainforest of Terminalia, Pometia, Elaeocarpus & Albizia. Kikori District, Gulf Province; 200 k. from coast on Purari river; south side of ridge upstream from Wabo Creek. http://apps.kew.org/herbcat/detailsQuery.do?barcode=K001045938 (1975) C. R. Huxley & Kirk coll. Tuber 53x23 cm., brown, smooth with longitudinal ridges, Leaves mid green, Flowers white, fruit red. Papua New Guinea, Central Province, Varirata National Park. http://data.biodiversitydata.nl/naturalis/specimen/L.2913948 (1994) Indonesia, Maluku Province, (Moluccas Islands) Aru Archipelago (the most eastern group close to West New Guinea Island) Kobroor Island, 8 km SE of Jirlay. http://data.biodiversitydata.nl/naturalis/specimen/L.2914173 (1995) Roots tuberous, ant-inhabited, leaves thin, leathery, fruit red. In secondary forest on limestone hill at 500 m. (1640 ft.) West New Guinea Island, West Papua Province, Bird’s Head Peninsula, surroundings of Ayawasi. http://data.biodiversitydata.nl/naturalis/specimen/L.2914138 (2000) Ant home slightly warty and bumpy but relatively smooth with no ridges or spines; smelling of a potato when cut; bulbous; to 9 x 5.5 cm; with mass of fibrous roots around the base; several young plants germinating in root mass, young plants already with small hollow ant houses and ants; ants not biting, small and black. Stems pendulous, very pale grey, rooting sparsely along their length especially at base; main stem 63 cm long; secondary stem a branch 36 cm long arising 11 cm along the main stem; stems ridged, ridge arising from axil of a lower node moving around stem and ending at stipule (or vice versa). Leaves orientated in horizontal pale, i.e. petioles twisting lime green above, rusty orange green below. Inflorescence a dichasial cyme branching 3 times, i.e. with 8 terminal inflorescence heads (all inflorescences branched exactly the same and at the same stage - anthesis nearly finished, mostly all young fruits, only one mature fruit seen); inflorescence stalk woody. Corolla translucent white, tinged pale orange at apex (RHS colour chart 25C), corolla appendages very tufted, pure white. Young fruits orange-green, orange at apex (RHS 24A); ripe fruit orange-red (RHS 34A). West New Guinea, Papua Province, Mimika Regency. Kuala Kencana, in front of Rima Irian Golf Club towards access road. http://data.biodiversitydata.nl/naturalis/specimen/L.2914122 Specimens originally named as, H. “communis” (1920 Dr. Lam collection, West New Guinea, Mamberamo River, Pionierbivak. http://data.biodiversitydata.nl/naturalis/specimen/L.2913968 http://data.biodiversitydata.nl/naturalis/specimen/L.2913928 http://data.biodiversitydata.nl/naturalis/specimen/L.2913933 H. “communis” (1920 Lam coll.) Mamberamo River, pr. Meervlakte bij Prauwenbivak. http://data.biodiversitydata.nl/naturalis/specimen/L.2913929 See also H. radicans var communis below. H. kelelense Val. Not type but may become a synonym, Papua New Guinea, Morobe Province, Along the Bunga River about 15 miles NE of Lae. (Hartley coll. 1963.) http://data.biodiversitydata.nl/naturalis/specimen/L.2913931 H. montis-kani Val. (1953 Brass coll.) Papua New Guinea; Milne Bay District. Biniguni Camp, Gwariu River. Low epiphyte in Riverine rain forest at 200 m. (656 ft.) (See (Brass 1953) above. http://data.biodiversitydata.nl/naturalis/specimen/L.2913958 H. montis-kani Val. (1972 Katik coll.) Lae - Leiden - Canberra Botanical Expedition. Papua New Guinea, Milne Bay Province, Rabaraba, Ma-u River, Mt Suckling Complex. http://data.biodiversitydata.nl/naturalis/specimen/L.2913939 H. normale Becc. (1935 Clemens coll. not type) Papua New Guinea, Morobe Province, Sattelberg. http://data.biodiversitydata.nl/naturalis/specimen/L.2913970 H. radicans Becc var “communis” Val. (1920, Lam coll.) West New Guinea Island, Papua Province, Mamberamo River, at 70 m. (230 ft.) Pionierbivak (one of a number of camps along explored rivers.) See bottom of p104, Biogeography and Ecology of New Guinea. Which details early explorations of New Guinea and is digitised. http://data.biodiversitydata.nl/naturalis/specimen/L.2913934 H. radicans Becc var communis Val. (1912 Pulle collection) West New Guinea Island, Papua Province (south), Lorentz River, Kloofbivak (Kloof Camp) http://data.biodiversitydata.nl/naturalis/specimen/L.2913967 H. “thomsonii” (1914 Thompson coll.) West New Guinea, Nova Guinea neerlandica in reg. flum. Mamberamo, pr. flur., Utkenrivier op Kleischiefer. http://data.biodiversitydata.nl/naturalis/specimen/L.2913938 Probable synonyms. H. amplifolium S. Moore, Isotype (1926) published in Journal of Botany British & Foreign LXV (65) p270, (1927.) http://plants.jstor.org/stable/10.5555/al.ap.specimen.bri-aq0570115 H. dolichophyllum Val. (1912, Ledermann collection, not type. Huxley refers to H. radicans. Papua New Guinea, Sepikgebiet. http://data.biodiversitydata.nl/naturalis/specimen/L.2913930 H. keiense Becc., (1873) Type, Moluccas Island, Kai (Kei) Island, kei bandan a weri. http://apps.kew.org/herbcat/getImage.do?imageBarcode=K000761921 H. keiense Becc. Papua New Guinea, Milne Bay Province, Peria Creek, Kwagira (Kwaria) River 9°42'S 149°23'E. Brass collection (1953). http://kiki.huh.harvard.edu/databases/specimen_search.php?mode=details&id=518743 H. punamense Lauterb. (Carr 1936) Flowers white, fruit dull orange, Papua New Guinea, Central Province, Isuarava, 4 20 S, 152 16 E, http://apps.kew.org/herbcat/detailsQuery.do?barcode=K001045863 And. http://data.biodiversitydata.nl/naturalis/specimen/L.2913932 http://data.biodiversitydata.nl/naturalis/specimen/L.2913924 H. punamense Lauterb. (Brass 1953) High epiphyte, branches 60-70 cm long, sub-pendent from unarmed tuberous base ± 20 cm in diameter, flowers white, fruit orange. Peria Creek, Kwagira River, Milne Bay District, Papua New Guinea. http://apps.kew.org/herbcat/detailsQuery.do?barcode=K001045936 H. punamense Lauterb. (1964) leaves mid green torus (tuber?) green, flowers white, epiphyte at 4 ft. on Sonneratia overhanging fresh water lagoon, Papua New Guinea. Sepik District, Leitre village. http://apps.kew.org/herbcat/detailsQuery.do?barcode=K001045862 A very suspect identification. (1968 coll.) Borneo Island, Malaysia, Sabah State, Madai caves, Madai Baturong Forest Reserve at 100 m. (328 ft.). http://data.biodiversitydata.nl/naturalis/specimen/L.2913875 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrick Posted March 15, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2019 The biodiversity. naturalis site is closed for some time due to reorganization. However, access to Hydnophytum sheets can be achieved through https://www.europeana.eu/portal/en/# Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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