Myrmecodia platytyrea subsp. antoinii "mossman form"

[Derrick]

I have been asked about identifying this form but will reply here so that all interested members might benefit. The population of this species found in tourist popular Mossman Gorge (a little north of Cairns, North Queensland) is anomalous, occurring as it does in Australia's Wet Tropics Bioregion.  Indeed, so unusual that some well informed individuals initially thought they might be M. tuberosa "papuana". For example, they are unusually multi-branched and extremely weather beaten. The plants are high in rainforest trees, so are difficult to photograph, especially so because it was raining at the time. Other populations are found on Cape York Peninsula and are subject to a Monsoon climate that varies from extreme high summer rainfalls, to about a seven month, short-day dry season, (there is no winter there) but always with high humidity.

[Frank]

Thanks for addressing this plant Derrick.  I have been uneasy about this identification for a long time.  This plant I am growing of it came out of Australia as seed in early 2008 with the only note being "Mossman, Australia".  The first photo here shows my plant on May 20, 2012.  The caudex made a serious mass of adventitious roots early on and kept them for a long time - I know other people have remarked about these roots as well.  The flowers were the 15 mm long that is expected for M. platytyrea.  As you can see the fruits are also long. 

 

One of the things that has bother me about this identification is the succulent leaves.  They are almost as succulent as Myrmecodia beccarii leaves.  The other thing that makes me uneasy is the arrangement of the clypeoli.  Typical M. platytyrea plants have the clypeoli in distinct rows with the alveoli forming a distinct channel between the rows.  As the second photo here shows (August 5, 2014) there is a distinct pattern to the clypeoli and alveoli on these purported Mossman plants but it is not the typical platytyrea arrangement. (This second photo is upright on my computer but shows up here sideways and I can't figure out how to rotate it)

 

So Derrick, can you confirm that the leaf succulence and the different clypeoli/alveoli arrangement are normal for the Mossman plants?

 

Can other of our members confirm that they have Mossman material that matches mine?

[Derrick]

Hello Frank et al. My only experience of this form, is of plants in habitat high in trees, so I cannot add much; however, Australian authorities accept it as named.  Mossman Gorge is part of the World Famous Daintree National Park where there are other populations, including some growing on large boulders, but I have not seen them.  With an ever increasing interest in myrmecophytes it seems possible that someone will give it a status change if only to get their name attached. 

[Robert Pulvirenti]

Thankyou Derrick for posting the photos of plants in situ, and also to you Frank for your photos of a cultivated plant. These photos confirmed that I to have this form of M.platytyrea, mine is an older specimen with a caudex of 140mm at its widest. I was also interested to see that even plants in the wild had a fair amount of corky growths on the leaves, something that my plant also has even though it is grown with a fair amount of humidity with my orchids. My other Ant plants in the same shade house don't seem to to get this to any degree.

[jeff]

Derrick

 

no others informations on these  antoinii "mossman form" ?

Huxley & Jebb  tell like  stem  " few"  but no solitary  , may be in some place you can find  this specie with several stem ?

 

 

Frank

 

may be  a tuberosa 'papuana '  and a platytyrea subsp antoinii ?

 

no flower section to see the anther and stigma place  with the ring hair.

 

have you compared the 2 leaves ( form , midrib , stipule)   in one the stipule falling early ? and the others morphological caracters ?

 

jeff

[Frank]

I took some photos with my dissecting microscope of a flower on this plant today.  The ruler marks are millimeters.  So the flower is the correct length at 15 mm.  Note the blueish color on the anthers, which is consistent for platytyrea. The position of the anthers and stigma look correct.  Huxley and Jebb have it listed as a 4 parted stigma - that is not the case in this flower but it may be a matter of timing.  I failed to prod the stigma with a pin to see if it was 4 parted but was just clumped together.  I will do that on the next flower and also look for the ring of hairs in the corolla which I failed to do this time because the corolla busted up before I could lay it out for a photo.

[jeff]

Bonjour

 

excellent FRANK

 

platytyrea seem to have bracts short  at the inflorescent base  , have you ; the corolla tube narrowed  at the ring of hair , the stigma at the anthers ,(here slightly higher) ,4 lobed ( here indistinctly lobed)

 

for me this inflorescence is more close  tuberosa papuana .

 

on your plant you have not on the tuber, mounds ?

 

 

 

jeff

[Ash]

Hello,

 

For your interest - here are some further images of the Myrmecodia platytyrea subsp. antoinii from Mossman taken over a decade ago when seed was collected to establish it in authorised cultivation. Note it is both a protected species here in Queensland and occurs in a National Park managed jointly by aboriginal elders, hence the need to do surveys of its abundance. In the wild they do get the typical four rows of clypeoli found in M. p. subsp. antoinii from elsewhere in Australia although it is less pronounced in shade grown plants. They don't seem to get the orange or red petiole and midrib coloration of plants from further north on Cape York. The plant in the image is the plant that seed was collected from to establish it in the authorised propagator plant trade (e.g. via TAKARAH Gardens) so it is effectively a great great grandfather by now. It still lives there, having got old and fat, just minding its own business. I say hi from time to time while doing vegetation surveys.

 

 

 

 

It also occurs on rock torrs and mountain peaks in the broader area.

 

kind regards

 

Ash

 

 

[jeff]

Bonjour

 

excellent ASH

 

have you some  macro picture to the flower ?

 

JEFF

[Stone Jaguar]

Ash:

 

Great images! Thanks for posting them.

 

Forum members may be interested in seeing how fast this species can grow under greenhouse conditions. This is a fair example of a three and one-half year old seed-grown plant just beginning to fruit. For reference, the plant is in a 20 cm wide wooden basket and has been grown in a cool tropical ("cloud forest") greenhouse since seedling stage.

 

The larger, somewhat floppy leaves visible here are typical for flushes made during short, cloudy days here in late Fall and early winter. As soon as things started getting brighter early this year, the plants produce much more typical leaf growth visible at the apex of the stem.

 

J

 

 

 

[jeff]

Bonjour

 

very very  nice  picture .

 

for me the FRANK specie is not the same, have you an idea ?

 

jeff

[Stone Jaguar]

Thank you, Jeff.

 

This plant was grown from a batch of small seedlings that Frank sent me. I believe that they are progeny of his plant shown above. Clearly, different growing conditions can produce quite a bit of variance in caudex appearance of both Hydnophytum and Myrmecodia spp.

 

J

[jeff]

Bonjour

 

may be the moment to see  , your 2 cultivate condition ?

 

jeff

[Derrick]

Here is one of my early photos taken in Mossman Gorge when my eye was not so well trained to find ant-plants in the canopy. Its particular value is that it shows a single orange drupe, something (a colour) I have never seen in any other Australian myrmecodia species.

[jeff]

may be that the color of the agar of the drupe is a function of the amount of UV radiation it receives ?

 

on the FRANCK and JAGUAR picture I see some drupe , pale orange  no?

 

 

for me the drupe colour is not a discriminant caracters

 

 

jeff

[Derrick]

In mainland Australia, fruit colour is a very reliable and very useful diagnostic for its three Myrmecodia species. M. beccarii has white fruits, M. tuberosa "papuana" has attractive iridescent red fruits, and M. platytyrea only has dull orange fruits. If an Australian provenance is accurate then fruit colour can certainly be trusted. However, there is a very very faint possibility that there may be exceptions on tiny Torres Strait islands especially near Papua New Guinea.

[Stone Jaguar]

Jeff:

 

I have grown a number of hydnophytines outdoors in Guatemala at 14 degrees N and at ~1600 m elevation where UV exposure is, obviously, extremely high during the dry season and most mornings>midday during the rainy season.  I have not detected any difference in fruit color between plants grown in a lightly-shaded conservatory vs. outdoors there vs. in shaded commercial greenhouse in San Francisco. The fruit colors (fully ripe) for the Australian taxa that Derrick mentions are quite uniform under all three conditions. Ditto for Myrmephytum beccarii, Philippine and Malesian Myrmecodia tuberosa types, etc. While I suspect that you are right that some hydnophytine spp. do show variability in fruit color between localities and environmental conditions, I have not personally seen this in my own plants. A perusal of the H&J 1993 also shows some intraspecific variability in fruit color noted for a few Myrmecodia spp.

 

Please note that I do have several unidentified Hydnophytum spp. that "suddenly" change fruit color from light yellow to bright orange immediately before they drop. If you were in the field, unaware of this, you might take specimens and note the wrong/immature color assuming they were fully ripe.

 

Cheers,

 

J

[jeff]

Bonjour

 

JAGUAR

 

on yours,  you say that the fruit is what color ? white , orange pale ?

 

jeff

[Stone Jaguar]

Jeff:

For the Australian spp. that I grow that have fruited so far:

Hydnophytum moseleyanum - bright orange

Myrmecodia beccarii "Southern form" - white, often with slightly green tips

M. platytyrea antoinii "Mossman Gorge" - pale orange

M. tuberosa 'papuana' - very deep pink to ruby red

These ripe fruit colors are quite uniform under all of the conditions I have grown them in.

Cheers,

J

[jeff]

Bonjour

 

"merci" for yours answers.

 

when you say for M.tuberosa 'papuana'  "very deep pink to ruby red " ,

do you think that the color shades can be induced by the greater or less intensity of UV  ?

 

JEFF

[Stone Jaguar]

Jeff:

No, it appears that the variation in fruit color is tied to the separate accessions that I have from northern Queensland. While UV intensity may affect fruit color under some circumstances, I have not noticed it to play any role under my conditions either in Guatemala nor in California.

J