Andreas Wistuba

Hi Derrick,

which pictures are you referring to?

The link point to the whole Facebook group?!

All the best

Andreas

Cultivated plant:

Cultivated plant:

Here are some pictures I took of Hydnophytum/Myrmecodia mamberameonse (nomina nuda) in the Bogor herbarium.
Yes there are big similarities, but stems seem much more elongated:

Dear Jeff,

I agree, that the likelihood is there that it is in fact this species.

However, if you look at my photographs below, I guess you'll agree that this species neither belongs into Hydnophytum, nor into Myrmecodia. At first sight, it looks like a Myrmecodia, but aprt from the the unique inflorescence, tuber lacks the highly organized architecture of Myrmecodia and the inflorescence.
One of my thoughts was as well that this in fact shows a species related to Hydnophytum mamberamoense (nomen nudum) but the plants I found were much more compact. I did not see any of the elongated stems as shown on the herbarium sheet.

In any case I believe, that the plant shown in my pictures represents a new genus.

All the best

Andreas

Hydnophytum spec. from "inland mangrove" near Siasiada village

Certainly related to Hydnophytum radicans.

Lecanopteris sinuosa - Normanby Island

Certainly the most extreme form of this species I saw so far. The "thorns" from which the leaves emerge are much bigger than in the other varieties I saw so far:

Myrmecodia spec. - Mt. Kaindi - below summit - PNG 
This species certainly is related to M. horrida, M. ferox and M. gracilispina. However, the leaves are much more spathulate than any of these species and the shoot is far less spiny. This species, however, shares the "ant tunnels" in the shoot.

Anthorrhiza bracteosa Huxley & Jebb - Normanby Island - PNG

Anthorrhiza recurvispina Huxley & Jebb - Missima Island - PNG

Anthorrhiza recurvispina Huxley & Jebb - Rossel Island - PNG

Anthorrhiza caerulea Huxley & Jebb - Mt Kaindi - below summit - PNG

A young plant:

Anthorrhiza chrysacantha Huxley & Jebb - Mt Kaindi - summit - PNG

This picture nicely shows the typical branching of this species. The smaller leaves with less prominent lateral veins, the smaller, less undulate leaves and this characteristic branching pattern sets A. chrysacantha apart from the otherwise very similar A. caerulea:

Hello Jeff,

I frequently have sporelings in the greenhouse but they never became weedy such as other ferns. I was sowing spores in vitro. No problems.

All the best

Andreas

Frank,

This is fantastic news. I know that you will do a fantastic job.

 

You may want to look into vBulletin for the forum support. They aren't ad driven but the fees are minimal and the support is very good. Just a thought. I am sure the community can help with the fees.

Again, great news.

 

Todd

 

The problem is the transfer of content.

I do not know if there is any way to extract the content to transfer to another forum.

All the best

Andreas

I'm very glad that Frank gives this forum another chance after I decided to step back.

Good luck!!!

All the best

Andreas

Bonjour

 

but we have some  herbarium bogoriense sheet  with some  registration number ( LEIDEN), it is not sufficient   , find in borneo in 1925 and 1956

 

Furthermore these H.extendifolium  specimen is very well preserved , and very close to this  H."perangustum" and H.puffii

 

JEFF

A herbarium sheet with a name tag put on it on is not a publication.

Without a valid publication it's a nomen nudum. These rules are very clear.

All the best

Andreas

Bonjour

 

very good infos  but some problem nevertheless  this DERRICK info :

 

So it is to be an official name if it does FINALLY get published.  Currently we may use Hydnophytum perangustum Jebb & C. R. Huxley in press.  However, for some unknown reason this is taking an extremely long time to be published, but It is evident that copies of Jebb & Huxley's Hydnophytum revision have been shared with some academics.

 

then 2 names for the same species ?

 

may be also H.extendifolium  from borneo ?

 

I am OK with JAY  on the picture , but on the morphological characters  I see tuber subglobose to slightly compressed ovoid ,it could do so , no?

 

jeff

No, the paper by Low et al has been published. That is what counts.

Rule of priority.

All the best

Andreas

 

The image of the wild plant is quite different from what we are used to seeing for this genus.

 

Not really. I have plants mounted on bark that look like a good match.

When potted, this species exhibits quite different characteristics.

All the best

Andreas

Bonjour

 

to make  expeditions in these regions, it is necessary to have money and a good physical condition, unfortunately I do not have those two things.

 

the europe for some others genus, is already quite large

So I work mostly on past and current documents in our possession , like you it seem to me .

 

as a botanist I like to have correct and complete descriptions for determinations.

for these plants, these morphological details

 

-tuber

-stem

-leaves

-inflorescence

-flowers

-fruit

 

Pictures make  not everything, we also need other elements  like flowers section .

 

in  all publications, all these details are described , why not do it ?

 

jeff

Hi Jeff,

while I understand the importance of floral morphology, it often is not very realistic to obtain them.

Even more, since this often leads to destruction of the main plant. In the wild, I often saw and photographed plants that were hanging 15-20 meters away with a big tele-lens. How would you obtain the details in such cases?

Even more, fruiting and flowering in the wild is not such a frequent event....

I often have flowers here in the greenhouse but find it incredibly difficult making preparations of flowers without destroying parts of the flowering plant - which is a no-go for me.

If you are good in doing non-destructive preparations, you are invited to come here and do some preparations. I can do the next steps doing macro-photography but honestly, my fingers are too thick and my 48 years old eyes are too bad to do the preparations...

All the best

Andreas

This species seems to be related to Myrmephytum "species 1" and the ones from Triton Bay. However the caudex is always pendent hanging with the help of thick roots and it is much more elongated than in species 1.

In comparison, "species 1" is always attaching itself to the tree with its broad base.

The flowers are much more delicate than the flowers of the plants from Triton Bay.

There seems to be a huge degree of variability within Myrmecodia alata and Myrmecodia erinacea or quite a number of species that seem to be closely related to M. alata and M. erinacea.

All of them share the blueish flowers. Most of the species I consider related have a whitish petiole that might be quite long, as in this example to nearly absent at other locations.

All of them share a relatively simple barrel shaped caudex and present lots of spines around the alveoli. According to Huxley & Jebb, clypleoli are absent both in M. alata as well as in M. erinacea. However this specimen that quite clearly belongs to the same complex has distinct well visible clypleoli.

Actually, I found specimens I consider as members of this complex at most lowland locations in Irian Jaya I was searching for ant plants more intensly.

This species or variety is notable for the very long white petioles. The plant was found at 500 m asl, near Nabire, 40 km inland from the north coast of Irian Jaya:

Hi Jeff, 

 

Do you mean the two herbarium sheets in the link that Derick provided?  And if so, in which of the two sheets - the one from Kew or the one from the Netherlands do you see pollen and stigma information?.  For me both of those images are too blurry to read the labels, much less see pollen or the stigma.  Does one of the labels I can't read give the pollen and/or stigma information?.

 

If you don't mean the Derrick links - I don't see any picture links that Andreas provided for H. mamberamoense?  Can you provide me a link to his picture that you are talking about please?

 

thanks,  Frank

Hi Frank,

Jeff is referring to the text copied out of Huxley and Jebb.

All the best

Andreas

Jeff, did you find a description for H. manberamoense anywhere?  The only useful information of the herbarium sheet label is that it has "orange fruits" which is wrong for Elisabeth's plant

 

Derrick, nice resource page you provided, thank you

Hello Frank, hello Jeff,

just see the collection number.

It's essentially the same as one of the doubtful Myrmecodia species mentioned in Huxley and Jebb:

The taxon found by Elisabeth has absolutely nothing that reminds me to Myrmecodia. So I would strongly doubt that this is the one.

Please check the leaf attachments on the herbarium sheets: Indeed, the specimen on the sheet looks like a Myrmecodia with a drastically elongated stem.