elisabeth susanti Posted April 15, 2015 Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 this is a myrmecodia gracilispina or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrick Posted April 15, 2015 Report Share Posted April 15, 2015 Elisabeth. It seems not. I have traveled part of the Keglsugl-Bundi Rd., but unfortunately not far enough down it find this species. Being a member of the M. horrida, M. melanacantha complex it should show at least some resemblance (see my images) . Does it have tunnels running the length of stems to openings at alveoli? What is the collection record of your specimen if known? this is a myrmecodia gracilispina or not? Myrmecodia gracilispina C. R. Huxley & Jebb revision published in Blumea 37(2) p331, (1993). Again, we have passages that run the length of stems to open at alveoli as in M. ferox, M. horrida (see photos) and M. melanacantha. Tubers pendent, ovoid to pear shaped, widest at base, to 30 x 15 cm with ridges to 1 cm apart. Tuber surface smooth, dark brown and with dense spines usually on ridges. Spines are simple, slender, and black to reddish-brown at tips. Dendroid chambers are present within. Stems are solitary, unbranched, reach 30 x 2.5 cm and point downward; clypeoli are rounded, fleshy, raised from stem surfaces, and measure 1.2- 1.7 cm in Ø (diameter), alveoli are round with narrow brown rims; spines sit on black swellings, on clypeoli rims and in two concentric rings around alveoli. Fruit red, slender, 2 cm long, seed 6- 8. Habitat/Range usually on Antarctic Beech Nothofagus in disturbed and undisturbed lower montane forests at 2000- 2700 m. (6562- 8858 ft.) Bundi sub-district, Keglsugl to Bundi road. Mt Otto, Madang Province. Duto, Eastern Highlands Province, PNG. This is best placed in the plants needing identification section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 Elisabeth, that is an interesting plant. I hope you still have the plant in hand so you can look for the stem tunnels. A flower would be useful too as M. gracilispina is one of the few species of Myrmecodia with a seven parted stigma. Those leaves are really beat up! They may speak heavily against the plant being M. gracilispina because that species has rather long narrow leaves: 13 x 3-3 to 22 x 4 (-38 x 6) cm according to Huxley and Jebb.. Can you get some leaf measurments from your specimen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff Posted April 16, 2015 Report Share Posted April 16, 2015 Bonjour in what country did you find this specie ? for me it is not a M.gracilispina , I do not see the caracteristic alveoli : round with narrow brown rims harm , like FRANK tell , no entire leaves jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elisabeth susanti Posted April 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 thank you, Derrick, Frank and Jeff. I found this species in Fakfak, West Papua province, Indonesian. The species grows in mangrove trees. leaves: 16,0 x 4,50-17,0 x 5,40 cm. petioles: 7,0-7,5 cm inflorescence: with ring of hairs spines: simple to Jeff, when I discovered this species almost all the leaves have been damaged. there is a leaf that still good to be seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Bonjour M.gracilispina is not a mangrove species , their distribution in lower montane forest 2000-2700m the leaves are narrowly oblanceolate with a short petiole just 1-3 cm I do not see here these caracteristic. a lot of myrmecodia have a ring of hair to the inflorescence , for M.gracilispina from the base of tube , anthers at the apex of the tube , stigma at anthers , may be you can opened the inflorescence to see , the anthers and stigma position in the tube . may be a M.tuberosa 'bullosa' jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Elisabeth, Thank you for the additional information and photos. Given that additional information I would answer your original question by saying that it is not Myrmecodia gracilispina. As Jeff has pointed out the habitat is way wrong. The leaf measurements also confirm it is not gracilispina. If I was to venture an ID at this point I would say that the plant is probably Myrmecodia platytyrea ssp. plathtyrea. That species is present coastaly on the "birds head" of West Papua, Indonesia. The shape and arrangement of the clypeoli is consistant with M. platytyrea as are the leaf size and shape. The next time the plant flowers measure the length of the flower. If that is about 15 mm it would be another strong indicator for M. platytyrea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elisabeth susanti Posted April 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Jeff, Thank you very much for the information. Frank, I also expect as M. Platytyrea, after a closer look at some of the characteristics of the species. Thank you Frank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrick Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Very Interesting. I checked the name Susanti on Facebook and found an Elisabeth originally from Fak Fak, in West New Guinea, so I wondered if it were you. And I too suspected that your plant was M. platytyrea. Also Elisabeth, here you can access Huxley & Jebb's 1993 Myrmecodia revision and other hydnophyte papers. http://www.repository.naturalis.nl/document/565633, and http://www.repository.naturalis.nl/ then use its internal search facility. If orange fruit develops that will be another hint that it may be M. platytyrea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff Posted April 23, 2015 Report Share Posted April 23, 2015 Bonjour you find M.platytyrea in the mangrove? I see no ridges or mounds on the tuber very few spine .No reddish petiole . a lot of myrmecodia have orange or orange- red fruit , it is not a reliable determinant . made an inflorescence section to see the ring hair position , the anthers and the stigma for me it is more a reliable determinant JEFF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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