Myrmecodia spec. "Goose"

[Stone Jaguar]

Andreas:

 

This was taken last October but you can see how closely the caudexes match, particularly with regard to the morphology of the root spines.

 

 

 

J

 

 

[Stone Jaguar]

...and a full frontal taken in early January. Alveoli are densely spined like plant in your image. Note that petioles are distinctly reddish during the summer and fall. Basket is 45 cm for reference. The plant is conspicuously larger four months later.

 

There appear to be at least two very distinct species from coastal forests of this region with similar elongated stems and wavy leaves that do not match any species described in the monograph. The other sp. is also very showy, but has a scaled, pale buff caudex and very different root spines.

 

J

[Stone Jaguar]

As a seedling in January 2011 in 10 cm basket. Obviously, fast-growing when happy. Idem for sib sp. from same area.

 

J

 

 

 

 

[Andreas Wistuba]

As a seedling in January 2011 in 10 cm basket. Obviously, fast-growing when happy. Idem for sib sp. from same area.

 

J

 

Dear Jay,

that's the one I grow. I'll make pictures tomorrow. I was not aware there are two Myrmecodia species from the area!

They have blueish flowers, right?

All the best and thank you very much for posting these. 

Andreas

[Andreas Wistuba]

Andreas:

 

This was taken last October but you can see how closely the caudexes match, particularly with regard to the morphology of the root spines.

 

 

 

J

 

 

What a wonderful plant. I'm thrilled...

All the best

Andreas

[Stone Jaguar]

Andreas:

 

Only "Goose" has flowered here so far. Flowers on this end are white but sometimes show a very light grayish cast.

 

J

[Frank]

I also grow the plant that was on the American eBay as "Goose" from the Triton Bay area of Irian Jaya that Jay has posted photos of above. 

 

Here is information from the eBay listing:  "This is a plant grown from seed collected in 2007 just inland behind the beach of Triton Bay on the shore of Irian Jaya, Indonesia.  As the plant gets larger it should exhibit stiff, card-like leaves with long, deep-red petioles and stellate spines on the stems. "

 

One of the attached photos of my plant shows a purplish cast to the petioles.  My observations of this plant suggests that they are dioecious. I have two of them and this morning all three flowers I dissected on the larger plant (the one pictured here) had a long style with a small 5-parted stigma.  The anthers were near the bottom of the corolla tube and were rudimentary and making no pollen.  The three flowers I dissected on the much smaller second plant I have had stamens 10 times bigger than the stamens on the female plant and they were making pollen.  I did not see a stigma or style (not an easy dissection, so they may have been there but would have been very small.)  My macro photo system using a microscope is currently out of order or I would have macro (will eventually have) flower photos for you

 

I did cross pollinate several flowers about 3 months ago but no fruit is evident yet. My experience is that Myrmecodia fruits show up 5 to 6 months after pollination.

 

My female plant is quite large, not so the male plant - it has struggled. The plant pictured here is the female plant growing in a 8 inch wood slat basket mounted sideways.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Andreas Wistuba]

I believe that this species might be related.

 

All the best

Andreas

[Andreas Wistuba]

Dear Frank, der Jay,

are you sure that these pics do still not show two distinct species?

Franks plant has long petioles that I do not see in Jays plant. 

My two plants do also not have real petioles.

If I understand correctly, the plants are supposed to be this species: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=448280898579704&set=gm.520180331380778&type=1&theater

IMHO, the leaves in this low-res picture also lacks distinctive petioles, such as Jay's and mine.

All the best

Andreas (still confused...)

[jeff]

for me  this one and the timika specie  are not the same

 

the leaves are completely different .

 

JAGUAR have you a picture to the stem and their alveoli to your plant

 

JAGUAR and FRANK  your plant are the same?

 

FRANK why dioique ? why not a plant some time longistyle and some time brevistyle like M.Albertisii ( heterostyle)

 

jeff

[Frank]

 

If I understand correctly, the plants are supposed to be this species: https://www.facebook...&type=1

 

Andreas, at least 6 different photos labeled "Myrmecodia sp. (and than a number 1 to 6)" came out of that trip to Triton Bay.  None of them, to my knowledge, was a photo of the plant that was sold on eBay as the "Goose" from that trip.  The facebook photo you reference above is for sure not what came to be called the goose.

 

I did find on my computer the original photo from the eBay listing for the "Goose"

 

[Andreas Wistuba]

Andreas, at least 6 different photos labeled "Myrmecodia sp. (and than a number 1 to 6)" came out of that trip to Triton Bay.  None of them, to my knowledge, was a photo of the plant that was sold on eBay as the "Goose" from that trip.  The facebook photo you reference above is for sure not what came to be called the goose.

 

I did find on my computer the original photo from the eBay listing for the "Goose"

 

Hi Frank,

so you suggest, it's a few species that came from Triton Bay?

I guess I'll have to go there in 2015 when I plan to return to Papua...

All the best

Andreas

[Andreas Wistuba]

P.S.

I feel that this thread will be again split in two another time....

 

For me, Jay's plant is Myrmecodia alata but Frank's plant is something completely different!

[Stone Jaguar]

Greetings:

 

I took this series of photos this past Saturday (10.04.14) to provide additional key characters in order to try and sort these different Bird's Head Myrmecodia spp. out.

 

Leaf and alveoli

 

 

[Stone Jaguar]

In light of the lack of fruit production in spite of it being very free-flowering, I had attempted to self-pollinate this plant during the Fall of last year. When I removed several flowers this past weekend in order to dissect them, I realized that this plant appears to be unisexual, with morphologically distinct male and female flowers on the same plant. This is quite striking for two reasons. The first is that Myrmecodia spp. are not known to be either dioecious or unisexual, with most cultivated species being autogamous. The second is that one of the well-known diagnostic characters of the genus is the four-lobed corolla. It  now appears that at least two of the West Papuan spp. have both four and five-lobed corollas on the same plant (closely examine the flowers in Frank's image nos. 3 and 4 of Myrmecodia sp. "Timika"; while blurry, they appear to show at least two with five lobes).

 

My ignorance of this completely unexpected aspect of this species reproductive biology probably had me placing pollen that I dissected out last September onto other male flowers...no real surprise as to why this failed to produce the desired result.

 

I throw myself on the mercy of the court.

 

In any event, I have attached photos of both flower types on the plant. You can see both four and five-lobed corollas very clearly, even within the same alveolus.

[Stone Jaguar]

And so, onto the pure white flowers themselves. I find it quite interesting that the anthers are located quite a bit lower in the tube than other Myrmecodia spp. that I have dissected. Please note what appear to be five rudimentary anthers located within a conspicuous band of very fine hairs in the five-lobed flower shown below, as compared to the well developed anthers and pollen grain shown in the (presumably) four-lobed male flower. Flower morphology does not match M. alata as illustrated in H&J. I cannot really tell from my superficial examination how distinct the stigmas are between the two flower forms.

It remains to be seen how many of these apparently closely-related species will share these unique flower characters, beyond this and M. sp. "Timika".

BTW, it seems obvious that this sp. has a native pollinator that presumably "rapes" both types of corollas, since no evidence that they open naturally, even nocturnally. Perhaps a sunbird fills this role as they glean the alveoli and flowers?

[jeff]

for me  these 2 flowers are the same with a ring hair mid tube  the anthers ( sessile, it seem to me)at the ring hair and the stigma at the tube apex  but for one with 4 lobs and the other 5 .

may be a genetic problem.

 

this plant seem not heterostylous.

 

M.alata :

broad ring of hairs below or at mid tube . Anthers sessile ,among hairs ( or filaments1.5mm , anthers above hairs). Stigma  at, below or above anthers.

 

for me may be a M.alata.

 

why you speak  here to a dioique plant , the rubiaceae are known as such ?

 

 

jeff

[Frank]

Here is a photo of the two plants I have as Myrmecodia species 'Goose" that I bought on an eBay auction in 2010.  The larger plant is also pictured higher up on this thread.  It is the plant that is making female flowers.  It is growing hanging off of an 8 inch wood slat basket.  The smaller plant to the left in a 5 inch pot is the plant that is producing male flowers.  It produces them few and far between.  The few times I tried cross pollinating no fruits were produced.

[Frank]

The "Goose" female flowers:  I have somewhat higher magnification than what Jay had for the photos he posted above, he however dissects much more neatly than me!  The flower I photographed had 5 petals and clearly a 5-parted stigma.  Note the sparse growth of hairs going up the petals from where the anthers are attached.  You can also see these well on Jays top flower photo if you click on it to enlarge it.  I do not recall this in any other Myrmecodia flowers that I have seen.  The anthers are attached low in the corolla tube for both me and Jay but mine are blue and appear to have made some pollen.  In the 5 years I have owned this plant it has never made fruits so I can only assume the pollen is sterile.  The ruler marks are 1mm.

[Frank]

The "Goose" male flowers:  This is a 4 parted flower off of my male Goose plant.  The flower did not come off the plant cleanly - it broke near the middle. There were 4 anthers, 3 are seen in the cut-open corolla tube.  Note that they are high up in the tube and highly colored.  To the left in the third  photo is part of the broken off bottom of the flower tube and you can see a short style towards the bottom with a small multi-blobed stigma at its tip towards the top.  The ruler marks are 1 mm.

[jeff]

Boujour

 

for me myrmecodia are not dioique  but sometimes heterostylous   with  longistyle  or brevistyle flowers  , like myrmecodia tuberosa "lanceolata ".

 

this one have also blue-black flecks in anthers .

 

others infos on this heterostylous flower:

 

It is observed in most species that stigma distyliques styled flowers of reaping more pollen than those styled flowers. [2] This is attributed to the greater accessibility, in contact with insects, long styles that short styles. [7] In most species heterostylous, short stamens styled flowers produce pollen grains more numerous and smaller [2]. According Ganders [1], the largest production styled flowers pollen grains would be used to compensate for the low deposit pollen on the stigma of the short-styled flowers. These receive, accordingly, a higher proportion of pollen consistent. The smaller size of these grains would be a physiological medium to produce a larger number [7].

 

 

see also here:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterostyly